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Posted by hansmex at May 22, 2010, 4:51:04 PM

Auto-crashing file
Emmanuel:

Looking at some of my older designs, I came across this file. (see House with double roof)

For some reason I can open the file, but SH3D v2.3 shuts itself down before displaying anything. I also attach the two log files.

Hans
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hs_err_pid21648.log (49019 bytes) (Download count: 8114)

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hs_err_pid21732.log (49454 bytes) (Download count: 8097)

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Hans

new website - under constuction
hansdirkse.info

Posted by db4tech at May 23, 2010, 1:59:14 AM

Re: Auto-crashing file
Hi Hans,

With you helping me, with the Sweet Home windows position changing test, I do hope you won't mind I had a go at opening your home model.

It opened okay without any problems using Sweet Home 2.3 running on Windows 7. There was a slight delay as parts were drawn but otherwise it loaded and displayed okay.

So you know I have opened your model, I made the two slopping roof parts visible again, then (also in case it helps solve the problem) I re-saved the model with version 2.3 for you to try.

House with double roof re-saved with version 2.3

db4tech

Posted by hansmex at May 23, 2010, 9:04:30 AM

Re: Auto-crashing file
db4tech:

Thanks! The file now opens without any problem.
I'll do some more testing to find out if I can narrow down the problem.

Hans

(update)
Unfortunately I was too quick with my reply. The file has crashed again several times on opening, although on other occasions it works fine. Very strange!
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Hans

new website - under constuction
hansdirkse.info

Posted by Puybaret at May 23, 2010, 9:45:48 AM

Re: Auto-crashing file
Hans, I'm glad db4tech fixed your issue, but I would be really astonished that re-saving might have changed anything! sad

If you have a quick look at the stack information in the log files you posted:

Stack: [0x11a5f000,0x11ab0000],  sp=0x11aae830,  free space=13e11aae1c0k
Native frames: (J=compiled Java code, j=interpreted, Vv=VM code, C=native code)
C  [libGL.so.1+0x3dd3e]
C  [i915_dri.so+0x49486]
C  [i915_dri.so+0x49506]
C  [i915_dri.so+0x908f3]  _mesa_flush+0x23
C  [i915_dri.so+0x49d65]  intelMakeCurrent+0x45
C  [i915_dri.so+0x217a2]
C  [libGL.so.1+0x3d30c]
C  [libGL.so.1+0x18e62]  glXMakeCurrentReadSGI+0x432
C  [libGL.so.1+0x18f33]  glXMakeCurrent+0x23
C  [libj3dcore-ogl.so+0xbd57]  Java_javax_media_j3d_NativePipeline_createNewContext+0x155
j  javax.media.j3d.NativePipeline.createNewContext(Ljavax/media/j3d/Canvas3D;JJJJZZZZ)J+0
[...]

createNewContext and then intelMakeCurrent makes me think more about a driver problem (you can deduce recent history in a program by reading a crash stack upside down, the most recent thing that happened being first cited).
Didn't you update drivers recently?
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D creator

Posted by hansmex at May 23, 2010, 10:02:45 AM

Re: Auto-crashing file
Emmanuel:

You may remember that since changing from Ubuntu 9.04 to 9.10 I can use SH3D on my Ubuntu PC, because that version implemented new video drivers. Because I didn't like 9.10 (rather instable), I changed early-on to Ubuntu 10.04, which I have been using through all alpha's and beta's. I first installed it probably last November, and have since updated it regularly, so now I should have the official release version.

These last few weeks I experience many crashes on my PC when using SH3D, as well as all kinds of strange behaviour, like strange icons in the furniture list, non-deletable furniture items, holes in renderings, windows in front of plants, etc. I have reported several of these.

As you know, I am a-technical. All I can say is that Ubuntu 10.04 is excellent, very stable, and doesn't cause any problems in other programs, except in Firefox, which also crashes every now and then. But that is a problem I had also under 9.04 and 9.10.

Maybe I may once again ask for a new feature: Autosave ?

Hans
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Hans

new website - under constuction
hansdirkse.info

Posted by Puybaret at May 23, 2010, 10:29:39 AM

Re: Auto-crashing file
You can always ask and I'm not against Autosave. wink

But if saving is simple on a technical point of view (saving already exists and programming a timer isn't difficult), it's more complicated than it looks like on a user interface point of view:
- When autosave should be run? Always after a certain period of time, even in the middle of a user input? Only between inputs? Then what is considered as an input?
- What feedback should be given to the user? Should a blocking save dialog box should appear? Or should a message appear in a status bar (then I'll have to create a status bar)? Or no feedback at all (the user could guess it was saved from the modified info in the title bar)?
- If there's no blocking save dialog box, what will happen if saving fails or if the user request to save while a saving operation occurs in a background task?
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D creator

Posted by hansmex at May 23, 2010, 10:53:13 AM

Re: Auto-crashing file
Emmanuel:

"My" Autosave would be located in Preferences with a check-box to turn it on/off, and a field or drop-down box to set the interval.

In OpenOffice the Autosave works after a specified interval, regardless of what you are doing. If the file is large, you notice a short delay because everything is blocked during saving.

If I were you, I would start with a very simple feature, and if necessary refine it.

Hans
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Hans

new website - under constuction
hansdirkse.info

Posted by hansmex at May 23, 2010, 2:34:30 PM

Re: Auto-crashing file
Emmanuel:

Doing some renderings I found that in this file the horizon is visible through the house. Walls are set a zero transparency.

If the image is too small, there is also a link to the original 1.8 Mb picture .

Hans
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Hans

new website - under constuction
hansdirkse.info

Posted by Puybaret at May 23, 2010, 2:47:24 PM

Re: Auto-crashing file
Hum... Maybe it's the reflect of the horizon on the wall? wink

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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D creator

Posted by db4tech at May 23, 2010, 3:17:19 PM

Re: Auto-crashing file
Hans,

Does the model open and display without any crashes on your Vista machine?

On your Ubuntu machine how much memory does your graphics card have. Have you tested the Windows version of Sweet Home running under Wine to see if that works without any problems?

Just trying to think of ways to help narrow down what maybe causing the problem.

Both Hans and Emmanuel,

I do like the idea of an auto-save, say every 15 mins? But only auto-save if changes to the model have been made.

Emmanuel if you do implement this feature please can you save the file with _bk added to the end of the file name, that way if something goes very wrong or there is a system/software crash there will still be the original user saved file as well as the _bk version.

Then next time Sweet Home was opened (if there was a crash or something went wrong) the user can be given a choice of recovering from the _bk file or ignore and load the currently selected file.

As Sweet Home is closed and a user has saved their latest work [i(to their original file) the _bk version can be automatically deleted, so lots of _bk files don't exist.

db4tech

Posted by Puybaret at May 23, 2010, 4:00:03 PM

Re: Auto-crashing file
Excuse me if I insist, but the rendering engines at the two highest qualities don't use graphics card.
Therefore, the computed image will be always the same whatever your system or your computer is.

db4tech, if I program backup files, it will be active only if users check the matching option in preferences. Not sure the _bk is such a good idea though. wink

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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D creator

Posted by db4tech at May 23, 2010, 5:30:20 PM

Re: Auto-crashing file

Excuse me if I insist, but the rendering engines at the two highest qualities don't use graphics card.
Therefore, the computed image will be always the same whatever your system or your computer is.

db4tech, if I program backup files, it will be active only if users check the matching option in preferences. Not sure the _bk is such a good idea though. wink

I know! smile

we weren't talking about rendering a final image, just opening and displaying a model without it crashing. Unless a software rending mode was used for the interactive 3D display then x-amount of memory on a graphics card will be required, which was why I asked how much memory his card had, I wondered if it was an older (very old) graphics card the texture mapping may be exceeding the cards memory.

When it comes the producing a final render (for extra acceleration) it is a shame the GPU can't be utilized in assisting the single or multiple cores of a CPU with the intensive ray-tracing calculations.

The _bk name would more or less be invisible to the end user, it was just a naming convention to allow Sweet Home to identify a back-up file over a normal user saved file.

db4tech

Posted by hansmex at May 25, 2010, 8:51:01 AM

Re: Auto-crashing file
Gentlemen:

I loaded the file on my laptop and it crashed so hard that even Windows shut down.

As to possible hardware issues:
- Laptop: Windows Vista, AMD duo-core, 2 GB of memory; I never had any trouble using SH3D (apart from all kinds of random problems and/or crashes)
- PC: Ubuntu 10.04, Intel duo-core, 4 GB of memory (of which Ubuntu only reports 3.3 GB), Intel 950 graphics chip (since updating drivers with Ubuntu 9.10 no serious SH3D problems)

I'm pretty sure the hardware isn't the problem. Maybe it's Ubuntu, in that case the problems should gradually go away as new updates are delivered. Maybe it's SH3D and then I'm sure the problems will go away if and when it becomes clear what causes them.

Emmanuel: On Sunday and Monday the PC crashed at least 5 times, I can post the log-files if you're interested.

Hans
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Hans

new website - under constuction
hansdirkse.info

Posted by db4tech at May 25, 2010, 9:43:38 AM

Re: Auto-crashing file

Gentlemen:

I loaded the file on my laptop and it crashed so hard that even Windows shut down.

As to possible hardware issues:
- Laptop: Windows Vista, AMD duo-core, 2 GB of memory; I never had any trouble using SH3D (apart from all kinds of random problems and/or crashes)
- PC: Ubuntu 10.04, Intel duo-core, 4 GB of memory (of which Ubuntu only reports 3.3 GB), Intel 950 graphics chip (since updating drivers with Ubuntu 9.10 no serious SH3D problems)

I'm pretty sure the hardware isn't the problem. Maybe it's Ubuntu, in that case the problems should gradually go away as new updates are delivered. Maybe it's SH3D and then I'm sure the problems will go away if and when it becomes clear what causes them.

Emmanuel: On Sunday and Monday the PC crashed at least 5 times, I can post the log-files if you're interested.

Hans

Hi Hans,

With you mentioning about your Linux system only having an Intel 950 chip (please can you specify what graphic card your laptop has) I think it could still be a graphics card problem. If it is helpful I have found Sweet Home to be incredibly stable, the only time I had a problem was trying to show someone a model I had created on their system which refused to display, they were also running an Intel graphics card.

I tried opening your original model again and am able to walk around your building without any problems or crashes, I can produce some renders if needed?

By chance do you have an Nvidia graphics card you could try in your Linux system?

To try and help isolate what may be causing the problem I have removed all textures from this version of your model, which should take a lot of strain off your GPU, please can you can try loading it to see if it still crashes. Thank you.

House with double roof (no textures)

db4tech

Posted by hansmex at May 25, 2010, 10:19:44 AM

Re: Auto-crashing file
db4tech, Emmanuel:

Thanks for whitening my file; I had done that myself already to make it smaller, because I noticed the textures took a long time to render. This is strange, because I have used 75+ MB files that handled faster than this one. Problem may be that these textures are self-imported and use rather large JPG-images.

I first opened your file in SH3D v2.3 while having already another instance of SH3D open. The file opened without any problem, but there was a small quirk in the 3D display.
I then closed both instances of SH3D and opened the file in SH3D v2.4 b5. It opened but the 3D display was rather mixed up, as shown below.
I then closed the beta and re-opened the file in SH3D v2.3, this time the file crashed op opening.

As to my Ubuntu PC: the invoice I got doesn't say what kind of graphics card is in the PC. I guess it's just the graphics chip on the motherboard, if that is possible.
The fact that the file also crashed my Vista laptop suggests there is another problem.
I attach the last log file of my PC. If you can explain where to find the log-file on my Vista laptop, I can attach it as well.

Hans

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hs_err_pid10838.log (49264 bytes) (Download count: 3182)

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Hans

new website - under constuction
hansdirkse.info

Posted by db4tech at May 25, 2010, 1:02:00 PM

Re: Auto-crashing file
Below is how it is looking on my machine with version 2.3. I am also wondering if the graphics corruption you found with version 2.4, windows appearing in front of your plant, could also be a graphics card issue? I can try your file on my machine if it helps?

I did manage to crash version 2.4 beta 5 with this file but that was running under visualization, the display started to corrupt and not long after it crashed.

As for your onboard graphics chip, If you can afford I highly, highly! Recommend buying a dedicated graphics card, you will be quite shocked at the performance gains, not just with Sweet Home but with most computer applications.

I know I'm quoting UK pricing but it is just to give you an example.

Sparkle GeForce 9500GT 1GB SF-PX95GT1024U2-HP PASSIVE PCI-Express Only Â£49.21 if that is too much I can help with other recommendations.
By the way, don't by a GS version Nvidia card, you need a GT model. the GS is the cut down version, which is okay but no where near as powerful as a GT model.

You would also need to find out what type of dedicated graphics card slot you have inside your computer, either PCI-E or older AGP, this can be checked through open source software without having to open the case.

Rendered with Uber

db4tech

Posted by db4tech at May 25, 2010, 7:00:48 PM

Re: Auto-crashing file
In case a direct comparison of graphics cards helps you decide the next best course of action to take, in the previous post I displayed your model without textures on version 2.3, here is your model with textures on 2.4 beta 6 displayed with an Nvidia card.

I do hope this is helpful.
db4tech

Posted by hansmex at May 31, 2010, 12:30:45 PM

Re: Auto-crashing file
Emmanuel:

These last few days I noticed a pattern in the (frequent) crashes of SH3D. It's not only the file mentioned above, I have other files that crash too often.

I noticed that this happens especially (only?) if I start a new instance of SH3D and then open one of those files. Before (or while?) displaying the 3D-render SH3D shuts down automagically.

But, when I open a new instance of SH3D and insert at least one item, and then open one of these problem files, it opens correctly, and I can work normally on/with that file.

This suggests to me that it's not so much the file that's causing the crash, but maybe that by inserting one item there is some kind of change that prevents the crash from happening, and allows the problematic file to open and display correctly as a second instance of SH3D.

Maybe it's of any help to you. If you want I can send the file(s) and log file(s).

Hans
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Hans

new website - under constuction
hansdirkse.info

Posted by Puybaret at May 31, 2010, 1:06:01 PM

Re: Auto-crashing file
Hans:
As you seem to have found a way to reproduce this bug, could you test whether it happens also with the previous version(s) of Sweet Home 3D?
Thank you for your patience
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D creator

Posted by hansmex at May 31, 2010, 2:01:54 PM

Re: Auto-crashing file
Emmanuel:

Using v2.3 the same thing happens: auto-crash when loading the file in the first, empty SH3D. no problems when opening as a second SH3D instance.

I downloaded and installed v2.2 but it doesn't want to run. Strange.
I looked for v2.1 here, but I cannot find the installer.

Hans
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Hans

new website - under constuction
hansdirkse.info

Posted by Puybaret at May 31, 2010, 2:48:25 PM

Re: Auto-crashing file
Thank you for your tests.
Previous versions of Sweet Home 3D can all be found at http://sourceforge.net/projects/sweethome3d/files/SweetHome3D
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D creator

Posted by hansmex at May 31, 2010, 3:56:56 PM

Re: Auto-crashing file
Emmanuel:

Thanks you for the links. I knew I had seen this page somewhere, but I couldn't remember where.

v2.2 was downloaded the first time from the website. I deleted it and re-downloaded from Sourceforge. Again it didn't want to open at all. I have to click the "run" button, and that's where it stops.

v2.1 crashed while loading for the first time (log 7978). The second time it completed loading without a problem. The file opened with all textures correctly rendered.

v2.0 loaded the first time without problems. The file opened with all textures correctly rendered.

All these were done on my Ubuntu PC using the file db4tech loaded and saved for me (the one with all textures, not the stripped version).

Let me know if you want any further testing done.

Hans
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hs_err_pid27978.log (43765 bytes) (Download count: 8085)

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Hans

new website - under constuction
hansdirkse.info

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