|
Sweet Home 3D Forum » List all forums » » Forum: Sweet Home 3D bar » » » Thread: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) |
|
| Print at Dec 19, 2025, 7:06:41 PM | |
| Posted by Ceciliabr at Aug 21, 2016, 5:44:54 AM |
|
Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) Ever since I started using SH3D, I have been plundering with setting the right time in the renderer. I have always thought the trouble was in my own head, since I have often been told that left-handed people have their brains cross-wired. But I think I learned at some point, probably when I lived in London, that the designation AM, refers to the hours between midnight and noon, and that, as a mnemonic-tool, I could think of AM as "After Midnight". Of course I'm most comfortable with the 24 hour clock, and would surely appreciate it if SH3D could implement it as an option. Midnight sun? Eclipse? Well, now that I have finally found out why I have struggled all these years and frequently been rendering images with daylight instead of night (and vice versa), I shall probably never make that mistake again. I'm still a bit confused about what's morning and what's afternoon, but it's probably a good exercise for a cross-wired brain to figure it out. All the best. Cec |
| Posted by okh at Aug 21, 2016, 2:38:57 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) ..surely appreciate it if SH3D could implement it as an option.... Under Win ENG language, but Scandinavian locale, I get 24 hour clock in the Create Photo dialogue, and 'correct' DMY. (But I still get . as a decimal mark when SH3D language is set to English - which leads to numerous typos on my part... - setting SH3D language to other European languages, however, changes the decimal mark to , )No idea how the various settings appear, but it would be nice to set these defaults in SH3D (especially for those of us who have linguistically confused computers, with OS, keyboard and software languages are often different). PS BTW I also get the wrong city and lat/lon as a default in the Compass setting. Think it used to be Paris, but now it is Berlin. There is a post somewhere about how SH3D figures out timezone / location, but I cannot remember where. Not a big problem, but I did get some surprising rendering results a couple of times when forgetting to adjust co-ordinates / timezone. |
| Posted by Ceciliabr at Aug 21, 2016, 5:19:09 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) @okh *Sigh...* Not being able to enter decimals using the numeric pad, is a PITA. I have mentioned this before, and gotten the impression it has something to do with Jawa. Strange, really, in a world where the num-pad is so widespread, that the Jawa-people haven't discovered this yet. But they are maybe just using laptops, working outdoors, in the Sun. The compass needs the coordinates to work properly. Choosing Nairobi doesn't put the sun in equator unless you specify the position. I have bookmarked this page, which I find useful. It would be nice, though, if the sunrise was in the morning (AM) and the sunset at night (PM) - I'm sort used to it cec |
| Posted by okh at Aug 21, 2016, 9:07:16 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) Yup, timezone/city for clock, and co-ordinates for sun height. That is within my comfort zone, if not, I would be lost at sea, so no problem setting them right. The only thing I cannot figure out, is why SH3D originally placed me in Paris and now Berlin by default (both city/timezone and co-ordinates). But, as long as I remember to set the SH3D compass, I generally know where I am. working outdoors, in the Sun. Quite... |
| Posted by Miker777 at Aug 21, 2016, 10:08:51 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) Hi Ceciliabr, Hi okh I gave up trying to sort my position out for exterior images, now i take a guess at night or day and through trial and error i rotate the compass untill i am happy with the result. ![]() Mike |
| Posted by okh at Aug 22, 2016, 9:19:32 AM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) Hi Mike, No need for guessing, getting it right is not difficult and once the compass is set with correct longtitude / latitude, orientation, time-zone (and date in the create photo dialogue), the sun rendering is very accurate. I seem to remember that even DST (Daylight Saving Time) is considered by the rendering engine (maybe even taking equation of time into account, but that I have not checked). A while back, Puybaret and I compared notes (after the blogpost about sunlight simulation) - and results seemed to be spot on. For instance, the evening sun disappears from my terrace exactly when SH3D rendering tells me it will. (Decimal grid, with standard GPS datum - wgs 84 - and true North - but in most cases this is default, and differences from earlier European Datum is marginal. The three digits in SH3D means the North/South position will be accurate to 111 metres, East/West even more accurate the further North you get. This accuracy is insufficient for navigation, but good enough for sunlight rendering). So for accurate sunlight rendering, do get the settings right: Should you be 5° off E/W, the sunset will be wrong by 20 minutes, and sun height (i.e. how much sun comes in the windows at different times of year) is significantly different in Northern Europe from the Med. If there are trees or other obstacles outside the home, location is key to finding out about sun and shade through the year. But getting the settings right is easy if you use a gps (on a mobile phone if you like, wait for gps to get a proper fix) or are familiar with navigation/maps. Actually, it is easy even if you are not: EASY APPROACH TO CORRECT SETTINGS: Geographic location (position): Find your home on OpenStreetMap. Click on the location and zoom all the way in. The URL will now look something like this: www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.27987/1.08279: 51.27987 is degrees North and 1.08279 is degrees East (in this case, Canterbury Cathedral). Numbers will be negative for South and West. (The location can also be read from other online maps, albeit with a slightly different procedure. If the location is given in Degrees/Minutes, like Cec' link, the position must be converted to decimal: same degrees, multiply the minutes by 1,6666667). North direction in degrees: can be read from the map, but the easiest is probably to use a compass aligned with the wall to read the degrees. Most phones come with a compass that is pretty accurate - exactly how it works depends on your compass/gps app. This may sound a bit geeky. But correct settings are important not only for the sunlight rendering. Getting the position and direction right will also determine how to place a dish antenna, a terrestrial antenna, solar panels of all sorts, choice of windows' light emission, need for awnings etc. For instance, our satellite dish is totally hidden far back on a side wall with a very narrow margin. Were the wall at a slightly different angle, we would have had to place it in the middle of the facade. Solar and antennae calculations will require some additional work, but usually pretty straightforward to figure out with available online calculators (or playing around with some basic astronomical navigation ).ok |
| Posted by mazoola at Aug 22, 2016, 12:50:08 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) Strictly speaking, 12:00 -- either one -- is neither a.m. nor p.m. Because of problems knowing which developers assign to noon and which to midnight, I always set alarms, timers, etc. to 12:01 [a.m.|p.m.]. I figure it's better being 1 minute late than 11:59 late -- or early. |
| Posted by Ceciliabr at Aug 22, 2016, 7:46:26 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) I used to be placed in Oslo, as I can see when I open some older files. But after I moved, I'm by default placed in Copenhagen, with the correct coordinates. How does SH3D know where I live? Could it be because my computer were bought in Denmark, and that I entered Copenhagen as my location when configuring it? But I still have Norwegian as my preferred language, and I'm still using my Norwegian keyboard. (There's a slight difference in the layout between Norwegian and Danish keyboards, a slight difference that becomes very significant when writing touch - a bit like transposing Camille Saint-Saëns piano etudes a half note ) You didn't by any chance buy your computer in Berlin? I have found no settings for 24 hr clock that has any influence on the render tool. Maybe it only works in Windows. cec |
| Posted by bdfd at Aug 22, 2016, 7:59:47 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) How does SH3D know where I live? Warning, big brother is everywhere... ![]() ---------------------------------------- Evil progresses when good people do nothing! --- SH3D 7.1 and nothing else - W11 64b in 4K |
| Posted by Ceciliabr at Aug 22, 2016, 8:08:02 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) @mazoola Yes, there are different opinions about what is noon and what is midnight. Even if I advance the clock by one minute, I still wonder; is 12:01 AM one minute past noon, or one minute midnight? That's why the 24hr clock is so genius. Why, I wonder, are we still using the 12hr clock in a digital domain, when the alternative is so obviously superior? cec |
| Posted by okh at Aug 22, 2016, 9:46:06 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) You didn't by any chance buy your computer in Berlin? Nope, in fact this is one of the few I have actually bought in Scandinavia. However, it is set to English UK (not US) for all OS settings but the actual layout of the keyboard (and € as default currency). This one even has a combined, physical, Scandinavian keyboard that displays how the Danes got the Ø and Æ mixed up. I share your frustration, moving a couple of keys really messes up everything. For a long period I was used to the French keyboard, but that only works if you have a separate numeric keyboard as the French have yet to figure out the numeric row on top. What I really hate, is when I work on French keyboards and have to type long hidden passwords with tons of special characters. Yes I touch type, but with endless special characters... A mess. Anyway, I suspect your AM/PM problem is somewhere in Java/MacOS. Maybe possible to fix, but I would not know. ..is 12:01 AM one minute past noon, or one minute midnight? 12:01 AM is most certainly just after midnight - as 12:01 PM means: "hungry, time to go for lunch". It is the 12:00 which is confusing. Your mnemonic-tool: AM = "After Midnight" is kind of confusing, though, when AM means before noon.As for the superiority of the 24 hour system, I fully agree. But then, I am against DST too. In fact, standardised time zones only came into play to get the train tables right - and I kind of think we could all be better off using UTC in an international world. Ever tried to schedule an international phone-conference? On the other hand, Danish counting from 50 to 99 requires linguistic and mathematical skills which makes AM/PM and time zones easy in comparison... ok |
| Posted by Miker777 at Aug 22, 2016, 10:25:11 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) So, just to clarify, here is an image i made at 12:63 on monturday the 32/13/2017, beutiful clear weather and i was in the garden facing due south north standing on my head. ![]() Mike ![]() |
| Posted by okh at Aug 22, 2016, 10:39:05 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) .. at 12:63 on monturday the 32/13/2017.. The post brexit system, I presume... along with the coming reintroduction of the shilling no doubt. ![]() |
| Posted by Miker777 at Aug 22, 2016, 10:50:06 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) They stopped the shilling? |
| Posted by Ceciliabr at Aug 22, 2016, 10:53:26 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) @ okh What's the difference between After Midnight and Before Noon? One is AM and the other is BN. Six hours before noon equals six hours after midnight. As my illustrations show, AM and PM gave the opposite results of what I wanted. The reason for that, was that my coordinates were set to China ( the bungalow-project), and I forgot to change the coordinates when I changed the time-zone to Oslo. I was thinking someone would point that out for me, although I already knew this when I posted, you know, presenting a problem and creating a discussion. Counting in danish is not so difficult. It's just like how we tell someone what time it is. Example: In Norwegian ( or Danish), you don't say half past seven at 7:30, you say half eight ( halv åtte), right? Half the next whole number. So think score (snes). One score = 20. So sixty equals three score. (Tres = tre snes) Fifty equals two score and ten. And like with the time, we put the half first, and say "halv tres" meaning "half three score". Counting in Danish is quite simple. Just ask the french... (J'ai eu un copain français dans dix-neuf quatre-vingt-dix-sept.) You know this, of course, but someone else might not. Godnatt cec |
| Posted by okh at Aug 22, 2016, 11:24:54 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) Godnatt @Ceciliabr Godnatt ![]() to you too (yes, but along with most other words Danes omit the 'snes' from the equation - at least the French have the decency of leaving in all numbers needed to figure it out, and how is 'halv-tres' supposed to make sense?) @Miker777 - a most annoying part about this whole brexit thing is what Brussels will be like without English sense of humour. Anyone who has suffered a long EU meeting will know... May just need a podcast before going to sleep. ok |
| Posted by Puybaret at Aug 24, 2016, 4:43:19 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) Sorry for my late answer, but I was away for vacation Here are a few notes about your remarks: - The 12/24 hours notation depends on your country (or the country where the computer thinks you are). I program the choice between either notation from a list of countries that used to be here, but the info seems to have moved elsewhere... If you get confused by 12:00 PM and 12:00 AM, may I suggest that you use the sun/moon symbol that is displayed at the right of the Time spinner? - The default coordinates of the compass comes from the time zone you chose in your system settings, translated to its matching geographic point when possible (see this part of the program inspired from various sources and that I spent many hours to program). So, Ceclia, if one day it changed from Oslo to Copenhagen, it's because you updated the town of your Time zone or maybe Mac OS X tried to find a more accurate place. - The decimal separator depends on the language used in Sweet Home 3D. Adding an option in the preferences to force either notation could be nice. Note that under Mac OS X, you can have a point instead of a comma in the numeric pad by pressing the shift key. ---------------------------------------- Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D creator |
| Posted by okh at Aug 24, 2016, 5:26:36 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) Aloha and thanks. Now the question, of course, is whether SH3D rendering considers the equation of time as wondered in an earlier post. But as that is likely to have zero practical significance, I suppose it is hardly an issue that should take precedence over important post-holiday tasks such as laundry... Good to know you are safely back. ok |
| Posted by Ceciliabr at Aug 25, 2016, 12:29:48 AM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) @Puybaret - The 12/24 hours notation depends on your country (or the country where the computer thinks you are). Well, my computer obviously knows I'm in Denmark (hence the new default location in SH3D), and Denmark is not on the (very short) list of countries still using the 12hr clock. I don't see what changes I can make to get a 24hr clock in SH3D. Note that under Mac OS X, you can have a point instead of a comma in the numeric pad by pressing the shift key. Ah! I didn't know that. Good to know. Hope you had a lovely vacation cec |
| Posted by Puybaret at Aug 25, 2016, 12:31:42 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) I don't see what changes I can make to get a 24hr clock in SH3D. You system must be in English, and Java doesn't see you're actually in Danemark. You should force your country by setting the Java property user.country to DK. Under Mac OS X, this can be done by editing the Info.plist file found in Sweet Home 3D.app/Contents and adding the lines: <key>user.country</key>---------------------------------------- Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D creator |
| Posted by Ceciliabr at Aug 25, 2016, 8:17:42 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) Yes, for a number of reasons I'm using English as my preferred language. One is that I was totally unable to understand the inventive Norwegian translations, where the most unimaginable gibberish were substituting the perfectly understandable English menus. English will always be my preferred computer-language. Unfortunately, the default English on a Mac is the US-English, with a very annoying tendency to auto-correct my proper English spelling. Under Mac OS X, this can be done by editing the Info.plist file found in Sweet Home 3D.app/Contents... There's in fact an easier way: Open Language and text preferences and select "Edit list". There you will find British English. Drag it to the top, and voila! SH3D now has a 24hr clock... and I should be allowed to write ageing and criticise and colour without getting red lines... hm... no, I'm not! Bollucks! But I got the 24hr clock. cec cec |
| Posted by hal9000 at Aug 26, 2016, 12:02:58 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) Anyway, as said in Wikipedia's article 12-Hour Clock, Ceciliabr was right expecting midnight to be 12:00 AM and noon to be 12:00 PM. I think it should be fixed if possible, that means in case it's SH3D the responsible to show it that way and not the system or Java itself. Regards. ---------------------------------------- If a long walk every day were healthy, mailmen would be immortal. ![]() |
| Posted by Puybaret at Aug 26, 2016, 12:42:06 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) But it's already the way it's displayed in Sweet Home 3D! ---------------------------------------- Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D creator |
| Posted by Ceciliabr at Aug 26, 2016, 2:35:05 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) @Puybaret Yes. Everything works as it should. @hal9000 As I explained in an earlier post, it was my own mistake. I had forgotten to adjust the coordinates, so the sun was i China, whilst I was in the Norwegian mountains, enjoying my vacation. The thread was meant to shed some light on the possibilities for making mistakes like that. You know, confessions at the bar... cec |
| Posted by hal9000 at Aug 26, 2016, 9:21:39 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) Oh, OK. I missed that part, sorry. Everything right then. :-p ---------------------------------------- If a long walk every day were healthy, mailmen would be immortal. ![]() |
| Posted by mazoola at Aug 28, 2016, 2:29:44 PM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) I dopn't think you're allowed to type "bollocks!" on any Apple device... ![]() |
| Posted by Ceciliabr at Sep 3, 2016, 12:13:36 AM |
|
Re: Is it rendered at AM or PM? (Why I'm struggling with the time of day.) "Bollucks", to be on the safe side. We can leave it to the "spelling experts" to decide what's right: ![]() cec |
|
|
Current timezone is GMT Dec 19, 2025, 7:06:41 PM |